Visualizza Versione Completa : Gm secrets
Era una notte buia e tempestosa quando mi imbattei per caso in un tizio dall'aria sospetta che mi consegnò un documento "scottante". Subito dopo il tizio si dissolse nell'oscurità e io dimenticai l'accaduto.
Ma il documento era lì..
..Paura.. :suspi:
Il documento si chiama "Ht Gm secrets" ed è scritto in inglese. Spiega come si devono comportare i GM, quali procedure devono seguire per investigare nei casi di cheating ed altri trucchi vari per smascherare le truffe su HT.
Oggi ho aperto un thread in Global raccontando l'accaduto facendo il nome del programma che gestisce le operazioni dei GM (Zebulon) senza comunque svelare le procedure (non si sa mai, metti che è vero...) chiedendo se altri avevano lo stesso documento o se potesse essere uno scherzo, ma un GM svedese ha subito cancellato tutto e mi ha detto di scrivere nell'apposito modulo per contattare i GM.......molto strano....
E cosi ho fatto......
Alla fine era una bufala :asd:
Comunque il documento è davvero ben fatto (ha ingannato persino me ! :asd: ) se volete vi posto qualche stralcio, anche se pare ci sia una maledizione........chi lo legge retrocede :asd:
:suspi:
Comunque il documento è davvero ben fatto (ha ingannato persino me ! :asd: ) se volete vi posto qualche stralcio, anche se pare ci sia una maledizione........chi lo legge retrocede :asd:
allora l'ha scritto Pap :asd:
anzi no, hai detto che è fatto bene...:suspi:
:D
posta, posta...
L'avevo trovato anch'io. :sisi:
Niente di che...
Lo divido in 2 parti perchè è lungo. Buona retrocessione e infortuni a tutti (per info guardare la mia squadra) :asd:
Hattrick GM Rules
Welcome
Congratulations on being selected as a Hattrick GameMaster. This is perhaps the highest responsibility that can be bestowed upon a user. The GMs decided to put together this guide in order to help you in getting acclimated to what it is that we do. This is not an absolute guide, but is designed to help you get off the ground with it and help your mentor as well address all the various duties.
There are several key areas of responsibility that the GM has: signups, cheat tickets, and email. Signups deals with the process of admitting new users to Hattrick. This is one of the most ‘regular’ duties that you will perform, as users are always joining Hattrick. Cheat hunting aka Zebulon is the tool that we use to help identify users who are breaking those rules. Email is the primary method of communication that is used by the community to get in touch with us.
Remember: English is the only permitted language in communication with other GMs or with HTs, LAs and other officials. This applies to all written communication in Admin, in the GM conference or at the official IRC meetings.(of course you may still speak other languages when talking on ICQ or on the phone... :) All official communication must be in English EVEN if you are speaking directly to a certain GM whom you know speak the other language fluently. This is because not only that GM, but all current and future GM/HT must be able to follow the history of cheating cases and other issues.
Here’s the quick tour of the admin site.
Home is the screen when you immediately log in. You’ll see a quick summary here of the Reporting Tool, Teamstatus, and if you have any outstanding bug tickets. You’ll also see the GM and HT heroes lists – the workers with the most tickets closed in each category.
Users
Users – similar to Find under the Users menu. Same functionality.
Login/loginerrors – IP tracing tools – finds successful and unsuccessful logins by IP.
Autolocks – in severe cases, a GM may decide that a user needs to be blocked from accessing the site. If a user matches any criteria given in an autolock, his/her team is locked – made inaccessible. This is a very powerful tool that should only be used with great discretion.
Team-logs – the ‘The Club’ and all other events that happen to the team.
Zebulon – Cheat hunting tool. Please read the full section for information here.
Game Data
Players – search for in-game players that play in matches, etc.
Teams – search by club name
Matches – search for matches by a team. This section also contains information regarding friendly challenges.
Federations – Administer federations within Hattrick.
Signups – view and administer to prospective Hattrick users. See below section for details.
Helpdesk
Reporting Tool – used for bug reports and game changes. Referred to as ‘tickets’. You will see ongoing and finished tickets. Finished tickets are an excellent way to keep up with changes to Hattrick. See Below for more
Teamstatus – Availability log for GMs. Keep this updated on a weekly basis with your information.
Staff Proposals – the tool to propose new staff members and to comment on ongoing proposals. New moderators, gamemasters, and language administrators come from here.
Texts
My Hattrick – Create a message that goes out to your country’s users on the my Hattrick system for game-related reasons.
FAQ – Edit the on-site FAQ
GM – edit your personal GM bio page and your zeb-lock message. A sample zeb-lock message is found in the Mail Appendix.
Introduction-Texts – this document
GameWorld
Match Times – view a graphic depiction of worldwide match times.
Names – edit the names database for a particular country.
Special
Server Tasks – see a log of all events occurring on the HT server and that are scheduled to occur.
GMs code of conduct
You should never get any in-game benefits for being a GM, in fact, sometimes you as a user could be hurt for being a GM. For example, is the developers give the GMs a hint on an upcoming change, you cannot use that information to make changes in your team prior to the announcement. This also mean that, even if you were going to do that change anyways, you should refrain from doing it, since users will think you did it using insider information, which could hurt the reputation of all of the GM team.
All the decisions we, as GMs, take should be based on objective rules and this should remain clear to users. So if you have an issue with a user, or you previously had an argument, just ask another local GM, or even a global GM to handle the case, so we remain objective in our judgement. Also, if you think you are very emotionally attached to a problem you should not be involved with it at all, just ask for help and try to stay out. If the case directly affects you or your emotions/beliefs, do not handle it. There are enough other GMs that a more objective one can be found easily.
All users should have the same treatment by the GM stuff; no matter if they are old or new users, they deserve the same respect. This means you should answer all your mails, and give all users the same priority. You may have friends in the game, but that should be taken apart from your GM duties. Besides, if you have a friend, family member or co-worker on Hattrick, you should immediately handle all their cases (applications, mails, cheat reports, etc.) to another GM.
Some work (a lot sometimes) is expected from you, which you accept to do when you agree on becoming a GM. You should do that work in time. This means, don’t leave unanswered mails for a long time (usually no longer than 2 days), don’t leave lots of signups in the countries you are responsible for (it is unacceptable that a user has to wait more than 4 days to get an answer on his application, don’t leave cheating reports undone for a long time, since users will start complaining about a not so good work from the GMs that would also help the team. If something happens which doesn’t allow you to do your GM job for a while, you should contact immediately the other GMs, since they are the ones that can help you out.
Your position as a GM is not permanent, nor does it mean that you can do what it pleases you. You are here to do a job, which is to help the game grow, develop and remain in order and fair for everyone. If at any moment you feel you are not capable, or do not have any time, it is better if you leave your position to another user who could have more time or is more willing to take the job.
Private things should remain private. Only GMs should know all things you need to know to do your GM job. This means that GM stuff is only discussed with other GMs. No information about admin tools should ever be revealed to anyone, no matter how close they are to you, even if they are friends or even family. Moreover, when dealing with a cheater who asks you to show your proof to close his team, you can never reveal how we found out, since that will make cheaters more difficult to catch. To state it clear, no user who is not a GM should ever know that we are able to: read private mails, see passwords, see player details although they are not for sale, etc. It is very important that you follow this rule strictly.
You should not ever overrule a GM on a ticket that they complete without their approval. This generally relates to cheating cases.
Things you shouldn’t do as a GM:
You shouldn’t look some of your team details in Admin, such as your team spirit or confidence, since this would be unfair to other users.
You shouldn’t look up player details in admin for personal reasons, just look at them if you need it to do your GM job.
You shouldn’t take actions about teams in your same league, nor get into their information in Admin. If there is some issue with them, always contact another GM.
Never reveal any GM information to regular users, no matter how close you are to them, even if it is your brother.
Never talk about admin, nor confirm the existence of it.
Never reveal any proofs of the way a cheater was caught, even if the other users just want to "help". Only GMs should know about this. This goes to the cheater that you locked as well.
Signups
Doing Signups is one of the most important duties of a GameMaster. The more time you invest in the signup-process, the less you’ll have to deal with cheating tickets afterwards.
How to do signups?
Doing signups can be divided in many little parts. You start with an overview of the application and then go into detail of each user, who applies for a team.
1. Overview
First of all you should take a look at the information the user has given to you. Is it a serious name, is his team name not offensive, has he provided a valid email-address and can his address be taken serious.
2. A closer look – Internet Service Provider
After your first overview you should have a slight impression, if the user can be taken serious or if there’s a ‘negative touch on his application. Nevertheless in both cases you need to have a closer look on his details.
First of all you should clarify that the user lives in the country, he applied for. The easiest way to do this, are the 5 small buttons in the IP-column. These buttons represent (from left to right):
- ARIN: responsible for Northern America and Southern Africa + Australia
- RIPE: responsible for Europe and Northern Africa
- LACNIC: responsible for Latin America and the Caribbean
- APNIC: responsible for Asia
- ARIN: quite similar to the first button, use it if the first one doesn't work
By pressing one of these buttons, the application IP can be associated with the country of the user.
Note: Remember that some international providers (AOL, CompuServe) use standardized IP-Addresses, which mustn’t be situated in the country, the user lives in. In this case move the user to the country of his given address. Manger from a country without own league may register in any league.
After this step it’s recommended to open the user’s details in a new browser window.
3. A closer look – Surname
You may have recognized the little number in brackets behind the users’ surname. This little number represents all the other accounts with same last name. You now should open these users by clicking on the number. It’s recommended to open the number in a new window. You now see a list of these users having the same surname. You should check the list for things like same password as your application, same login name-password combination, same mail-addresses (with different mail-provider, e.g. wutzelbutz@hotmail.com and wutzelbutz@yahoo.com ). If you can’t find suspicious data, you can close the surnames. But leave your application details open!
Note: The red number next to the users surname represents other accounts in database with exactly the same name (first name + last name). You need to have a closer look on these accounts.
4. A closer look – IP-Address
In this step open the IP address in a new window. You now can see all accounts that have logged in from this IP (till about 2 months back). You now check all accounts separately. It’s recommended to open each account in a new window. You should have a look for similarities on address and city, last name or mail-address, like in chapter 3.
Note: Please remember that IP-Addresses on work-places, schools or universities are often shared, so you can’t really rely on them.
5. A closer look – Password
Sometimes you can find a small number next to the password, too. Then you should act in the same way like chapter 3. Have a closer look on these other accounts to find similarities.
Note: Hattrick hands out standardized passwords to each account, containing of an 8-digit-number.
6. A closer look - Address and city
Take the same actions here as mentioned before. Make sure the address is usual in the country, the user is applying for. (See Appendix for details) Additionally you can use other information like you local phonebook to validate a users address. But remember that in many countries it’s not a compulsion to be listed in phonebook!
When should I reject an application (No)?
- The user has another account registered. In this case you should fine the other account. If it’s the first try for a 2nd team you should give a penalty of 750.000 sek. If the users try to register a 2nd team for the second time you should lock the users account.
- The user thinks, that he is bankrupt, but isn’t. Remember that bankruptcy only takes action after financial updates. It’s possible that bankrupt accounts get reopened.
- A locked user tries to register a new team before his waiting period (7 weeks) is over. (Not on bankrupt users, once they’re definitely bankrupt, they can apply for a new team.)
When should I retry an application?
An application should be retried when:
- The user provides wrong or incomplete information
- Offensive login name or team name
The suspicious list
Sometimes you will have some applications which are suspicious, but you have not enough data to fine. Either retry, decline them or gather the suspicious teams and control them via Zeb about a timeframe of minimum 6 weeks.
One of the great advantages across from declining or retry these applications is, that you could find some cheaters, you wouldn’t have found else.
The waiting list days should not exceed 3-4 days and should not go under 1-2 days (this is to give the user the chance to write a country specific email and maybe to have some logins which can be checked against existing teams)
Usually, second team application will be found by checking the name, password or address. checking the ip address usually reveals multi-team cheaters (often using different names/addresses or passwords), and as these investigations can be very time consuming, you should make a zeb ticket about all found suspicious teams, which you can check later.
Users that submit deliberately false information should be ‘retried’. Examples of this include if they say that they live on street "assdfdsaf" or "wont tell you". Or if they have the postal code 12345 or 66666.
Zebulon (Cheat reports)Intro
The cheat report tool that is located on the GM-pages is connected to a database that we access through Admin. The GMs themselves may also submit reports (hereafter named Tickets) via the Admin interface - the Cheathunter - Zeb (Macahan). The main advantages with Zeb is that it fast checks up most similarities with the teams that are submitted. The really strong side of Zeb is the password comparison, the login-failures comparison and the transfer check up.
Main Options
When first clicking the link to Zeb, you'll see the main options. These options will be available at the footer on each page you view in Zeb. There are (currently) five different views; "Fast Check-up", "Create a new Ticket", "Change View", "Find Ticket", "Find Team". I'll walk you through it, in reverse order ;)
Find Team
If you want to check if a team already exists in any old ticket, you simply enter the TeamID in the box and click "Find". You'll be presented a list with tickets that the particular team exists in. All are linked to the appropriate detailed view of the ticket. More about that later.
Find Ticket
The "Find Ticket"-option is useful if you're discussing a case with another GM. Just tell the other GM the TicketID, and he/she can use the textbox presented to get to the detailed view of the Ticket.
Change View
This is a drop down-box with seven options: New In Country, New, Own - No Verdict, Own - Finished, No Verdict and Finished. When selecting one of the options, you'll be presented with a list of the tickets that matches the search criteria - the option. More about that list later. The different options are pretty self-explanatory. New In Country is the most useful, and presents you the tickets that no-one has taken responsibility for in the country that you're the responsible GM for. New shows all new tickets. Own - No Verdict shows all tickets that you've resumed responsibility for and that are not finished, the opposite of Own - Finished. No Verdict and Finished are the same, except that they show all tickets.
Create a new Ticket
Here you enter all the teamids that you want to have in the ticket, exactly the same as on the GM-pages. If some or all of the teamids already exists in an old ticket, Zeb will try to add those teamids to the old ticket and concatenate the text to the old. This will only work if the number of teams in the old ticket plus the new ticket is less or equal to eight.
Fast look-up
Here you can enter the teamids you want to generate a report about. They will not get stored in a ticket. More about the report later.
The list in New-view
This list views all the tickets that match the search-criteria. TicketID is obvious. Team1 and Team2 is the teams in the ticket if it is only two teams in the ticket. If there are more teams in ticket than two, those two fields will have "Multiple Teams" in them. "Text" is a short bit of the text that has been supplied with the text, if any. Reporter is the username of the person reporting the ticket. Responsible will show the GM responsible for the ticket, if any. Looking at the "New"-view will show an empty column here, since that is the search criteria for "New" :). Status is the status of the ticket; more about that later. Details is a link to a more detailed view of each ticket; more about that soon. "Assume Ticket" is short for "Assume Responsibility for the Ticket". You may check as many tickets you want (preferably those of your own country), and then press "Assume Ticket" at the bottom of the list. Those tickets checked will now be marked as "yours", and will show up in the "Own"-views. Anyway, click "details" on any of the tickets.
Details
You'll be presented with the full details about a ticket. Each team will be presented with name and also with its owner's notes. Also the full text will be provided, and some other easy-understandable information. You also have several options. Change text is easy, just add or delete as you wish, and click change. This might be useful if you want to supply new information to another GM, for example. You may also change the status of the ticket. When you have generated a report, more about that later, you may want to change the status to reflect what you think about the case. The only shady one might be "Uncertain". This is if you're not sure about the ticket, and want it to make it easy to find it later.
If you want to add a team to the ticket, you just enter the TeamID and click add. This will not work if you already have 8 teams in the ticket. Similar procedure for "Remove from Ticket". Click one of those, and that team will be removed from the ticket. You cannot remove a team if you only have two teams in the ticket. Last, here you also have the option to assume a ticket. The delete-option is only needed when something with the ticket is really wrong. Tickets that turn out to have no cheating teams in them should not be deleted, but marked as "Not Cheating". That way, we can have a history of the teams, and we might find something useful in the future about the teams. Absolutely last, you may generate a report.
The Report
The report generated by Zeb is the real cheathunting. It is a report that shows striking similarities and oddities by the suspected cheaters. It is divided into five parts.
First, Zeb looks for similarities in the info supplied by the users. Things like email-addresses, names and so on will be compared. This is the weak part of Zeb, since it won't find all mystical similarities that a human could. Anyway, it's a good thing to check out the email addresses.
Secondly, the password check is carried out. Zeb looks for a couple of things: First, if any of the teams in the ticket has the same password as another, Zeb will print it in the report. The same thing will happen if any of the teams has, in its login failures-log, the password of any other team in the report. This means that someone has written the password of another team. Last, Zeb will match the passwords with ALL teams in Hattrick, to see if any team has the same. In that case, those teams will be printed and you will presented with the option to add that team to the ticket. The same apply for all passwords in the login-failures log.
Third, Zeb checks if any of the users have written any HT-mails to each other.
Fourth, Zeb looks for similarities in login-times. For each user, for each IP-address, Zeb will look if any other user in the ticket has logged in or logged out within two minutes. This indicates that the user first logs in on one team, then logs out and quickly logs in on another team. However, one such incident is no case of cheating, unless the owners claim not to know each other. More than three or four is really suspicious. Zeb will print out the login- and logout-times as well as which users that are involved.
Fifth, all transfers between the teams in the ticket is presented. The players are linked, so you can check out how good they really are.
After deciding on whether or not some or all of the teams are cheating, go back to the ticket and change the status accordingly.
Mail Introduction
In addition to our Sign-up and Cheat ticket duties; we also have to deal with e-mails sent in by Hattrick Users. Each GM either has or shares an e-mail account where they can send mails concerning different topics. These can be found at:
(http://www.hattrick.org/mail)
If you do not have an e-mail account for your country, use the ‘Reporting Tool’ (this is explained in another section) to request for one.
Once you have logged in, there are a number of options across the top:
Get Messages – This allows you to refresh the inbox and see any new messages that have been sent to your e-mail account.
New Message – This allows you to send a message to the user of your choice, as you can write in their e-mail in the next option menu.
Folders – This allows you to create and/or edit folders within your account. You need this option when you create a folder for your e-mails that you need, to which you can refer later.
Address Book – This does not need to be used, unless you e-mail a specific user/GM/HT constantly (like a mentor).
Settings – This part allows you to make a signature for your e-mails. For example:
-------------------------------
Hattrick Gamemasters
England
england@hattrick.org
Please do not alter the subject if replying
However, there is no use in knowing this, if you do not know how to answer certain requests.
In the list below, are ‘standard’ replies to certain cases that will come up during your time as GM. However, these aren’t definitive and may need to be modified according to the individual case. Remember, if you are ever unsure of what to do, please ask another GM.
General Mail FAQ
Q: What should I do if there is an unread mail and it is assigned to another GM?
A: Put it in his or her folder, so that they can see it at a later side. Please make sure it is unread (To do this, click the tick box next to the mail and click the envelope button. it will then be changed to unread).
Q: I do the English league, but the mail is concerned with the Argentinean league?
You can forward the e-mail to the appropriate GM (in this case, argentina@hattrick.org ), but it is better to reply/delete the e-mail and say to e-mail the Argentinean Gamemasters. This way, they will be more inclined to e-mail them in the future.
New GM>When do you ask for a new GM?
There are two times when a new GM is needed. If a current GM has to resign due to lack of time, then it is expected that the outgoing GM and other local GMs should come up with a reasonable candidate for succession. Additionally, if a country grows rapidly and the workload becomes extremely high, then the old GMs should look to increase the number of GMs. Also, once a smaller country begins to become established, then they should be able to have a local GM. The current GMs must unanimously approve a new GM in order to be approved. The new GM must have a clean record in admin – no cheating marks, no potentially troublesome logons, and most importantly – be a person of impeccable judgment and behavior.
To propose a new staff member – use the staff proposals section under admin. The proposal is fairly straightforward – user ID number and staff role. Then create a comment explaining who the person is. Also post their proposed GM-name (or MOD-) and a brief biography. Also post that information on the GM conference for discussion. The proposal is accepted by one of the senior GMs, so check back on the proposal to see if they have any questions with it.
From the HT-team: The new GM suggested must know English good enough to able to communicate with all the fellow GMs and HT-team. Must.
Reporting ToolAlways read comments on completed tickets and updated tickets (yellow arrows). They often provide useful information from the developers. Also check to see that none else has created the exact same ticket as you.
How to report bugs:
When reporting problems with the web pages, always include the entire error message.
If there is a specific user or team that has a problem, include the userid or teamid.
If there is a bug in a match, include the matchid.
HT-ML: refer to another ticket as [ticket=1243], where 1234 is the ticketid. Guidelines for setting priority on System Bug-tickets:
Prio When to use
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Matches that have not been played / fucked up royally
1 Locked leagues
1 Daily update problems for entire leagues
2 Essential sections of the web site inaccessible
2 Transfer problems
3 Daily update problems for single teams
3 Occasional bugs in matches, like special events
4 Zebulon not working
4 Bugs with different supporter-functions
4 Other sections of the web site inaccessible
4 Single occurrence problem for single team / nat team
4 Minor bugs
NTAThe NTA is a group of GMs and developers who handle the National Teams, elections, and other duties relating to them. NTA is an administrative hat, which means it is assigned, you are not automatically NTA by being a GM.
You need to contact a NTA when:
A re-election for a National Team trainer or U20 Team trainer is needed because the current user is locked or goes inactive.
Something is wrong with an election result.
A National/U20 trainer comes to you asking for a player to be released from a locked or inactive account. There are special rules for player releases, and players need to fulfill those requirements before a NTA can release them.
Problems with scheduling National/U20 matches.
Middle EarthAs a GM, you may encounter a league/country named Middle Earth. While so doing, put on your blindfold... There is no such thing as Middle Earth (officially...). As a GM, you are supposed to not give any reference to it in discussions - not even between other GMs. Should you ever encounter a user referring to it (hopefully not!) you should simply play dumb and say "Middle-what? Never heard of anything like that. Don't believe what crazy people say."
Remember - you have never heard of anything named Middle Earth, elves and dwarves - that is all fairy-tales.
Trading (Player swapping) The transfer system in Hattrick is designed to be a free market system, but trading players or swapping is allowed under strict guidelines. Trading players do not occur very often now therefore it is not specifically mentioned in the rules, and it is also not something we openly advertise.
For trades to be allowed, permission from a GM is required, before the users can even list their players. If the trade involves teams from different leagues, then a Global GM needs to be the one that handles the case.
When teams approach you with a trade request, you must ensure that the trade is fair, with no one team getting a "better deal" than the other. This means you check the current transfer prices for the players with similar skills and determine accordingly. Additional cash can be included by a team to "even out" the trade.
There are no limits as to how trades can occur, but try not to have multiple player trades (such as 3 players for 2 trades, etc.) because it gets very confusing to follow and judge accurately. Also encourage your users to only trade players that are high in skill (magnificent or above in main skill).
Once you approve a trade, it is vitally important that you add a note to both teams’ accounts in Admin. State that a trade was approved and include the players IDs and the teams involved on the note, so another GM can know what has occurred, in case somebody reports the teams in a cheat ticket in the future.
After the note, you can then email the teams saying they are now free to list their players on the transfer market. All trades still go through the transfer list, and we cannot stop another user from bidding on these players. Under no circumstances do we manually move a player to another team. All transfers must happen in the transfer market.
As with any activity that involves your own team, if you are in a trade agreement with another user, make sure you get another GM to handle your case. You cannot approve your own trade.
Appendix: Fine and Punishment GuidelinesWaiting List
• A user who already owns a team and signs up for a second team: Decline the new team and fine the existing one with 750 000 SEK.
Acceptable excuse is typo in emailadress. If so, just lock without fine.
Multiple Teams and Transfers
Amount of teams--------Amount of cheat-transfers--------Penalty
--------2-------------------------1 or more-----------------Kicked out
----3 or more-------------------0 or more-----------------Kicked out
• In case of 3 teams owned by one person:
- All have been used: lock them all.
- Only one or none has been used: Lock, but acceptable excuse is typo in emailadress.
• In case of 2 active teams owned by one person but no transfers between them: The oldest team receives a fine of 2 500 000 SEK per team, the newest team has to be locked.
• In case of 2 teams, but only one of them is active but all have been used before: The oldest team receives a fine of 1 000 000 SEK per team, the newest team has to be locked.
• In case of 2 teams, but where only one is active and the other one doesn't have any logins or is newly-applied: The oldest team receives a fine of 750 000 SEK, the newest team has to be locked.
If it's obvious that this depends on a typo in the email address the user could be excused from a fine
• In case of 2 teams (more than two = lock) owned by different people, with obvious overpriced transferprizes:
- 1 transfer: Both teams stay and receive a fine of 1 000 000 SEK. Make sure also to manualy adjust the transfer itself so that they don't make profit from it.
- 2 transfers or more: Both teams have to be locked
• In case of 2 teams owned by different people, with obvious overpriced transferprizes due to an drop out turn, moneylottery or some other way of sabotage.
- Lock the buying team
- Manually adjust (see varia) the transfer for the selling team
• In case of 2 teams owned by different people, without transfers (or legal transfers only), but consequtive logins (could be familymembers who helped each other with youth pull or arranging a friendly)
- Both teams should be fined with 500 000 SEK.
You should also ask both teams to change their password and tell them to never log in to each ohters teams again.
Varia
• Offensive team name, team logo, press announcement or user name: Ask user to change it. If no reaction -> change name. If user comes back and wants to change = tough luck, he's had his chance. When there's racism etc involved: Lock and no come back in Hattrick.
• Spamming or offensive posts in conference: See the Pricelist in the Moderator-conference
• Spamming or offensive posts in Guestbooks/HT-inbox: Fine for minor abusive HT mails set at 500 000 SEK. Racist or overly abusive lock or fine accordingly (lock on racist obviously).
• Fine for player advertisements spam through HT mail set at 100 000 SEK per message no maximum.
But do think about that we don't have this rule for scaring newbies or make people go bancrupt. The rule is there to make spammers aware that this is forbidden and also make them not to do it again.
Therefore, use your common sense.
• Adjusting transfers: Remember that the players asessed value should have nothing to do with the adjustment. The adjustments should be calculated from the players value on the "normal" market.
• Non-appoved trades: Fine both teams with 10% of the transfer fee
Usual addresses
Argentina:
- Street name followed by 3 or 4 digit number. Sometimes street name is a number: ej. 128 nº3421
- 4-digit-postcode followed by name of city or town. Another option of postal code includes 1 letter at the beginning and 3 letters at the end, looking like this LNNNNLLL
Austria:
- Street name followed by nr
- 4 digit postcode followed by name of city or town
Example: Linzer Str. 131, 1140 Wien
ZIPs like 1000, 2000 etc. are no valid postcodes!
Online Adress-Finder for Austria
Belgium:
- Street name followed by nr
- 4 digit postcode followed by name of city or town
Example: Kerkstraat 15, 1000 Brussel
Bulgaria:
- Street name followed by nr, or vice versa
- 4 digit postcode followed by name of city or town
Example: 5 Maliovica Str. / Maliovica Str. 5, 7016 Russe
Be aware that since the Bulgarian alphabet is originally Cyrillic, some words in the Western may have numbers in words, e.g. 4, to represent Cyrillic letters.
Denmark:
- Street name followed by number
- Four digit postcode followed by name of city or town
Post codes can be checked at:
(http://www.postdanmark.dk/english/index.asp)
Espana/Spain
- Streetname, followed by street number, and floor/door if necessary
- 5-digit postal code, and city
Example: C/Diagonal 350, 2º 1ª 08035 Barcelona
France
- Number followed by street name
- 5 digit postcode followed by the name of the city (that can be checked here: (http://codespostaux.online.fr/)
Example : 25 rue Jeanne d'Arc, 76000 Rouen
Germany:
- Streetname followed by number, exception is Mannheim: there also exists a "grid" in the city, which results in a "streetname" like S2,4 or B8,3 etc.
- 5-digit-postcode (to validate use www.plz-suche.de) followed by name of city
India:
- Number followed by street name/number followed by locality
- 6 digit pin code that can be checked here.
Oceania:
- number followed by street name
- 4 digit postcode in Australia and New Zealand
- The following can be checked online:
-- Australian addresses
-- Australian postcodes
-- NZ Addresses and Postcodes
Portugal:
- Streetname followed by number
- 7 digit post-code, divided into two section, a 4 digit one and a 3 digit one, divided by a dash. Followed by name of the city. Many users still use the old postcode, which had only 4 digits.
Netherlands
- Street name followed by number
- 4 digit postcode, followed by a 2 letter combination and the name of the city/village/place
United States
-Numeral followed by street name
-Postal Code either 5 digits or 9 (last 4 are optional)
Sample: 1 Robins Road. Richmond, Va 23173
Brazil
- Streetname followed by number
- 8 digit post-code, divided into two sections, a 5 digit one and a 3 digit one, divided by a dash. Always NUMBERS. Followed by name of the city.
England/Scotland/Wales/Nth. Ireland
- Usually a number, then followed by a street name. It could also be something like 'The Old Mill' or 'The Rectory'
- Post Code in the system:
Letter, Letter, Number (space), Number, Letter, Letter. You can tell where a signup is located by the first two letters.
e.g. CT1 1PH , the CT stands for Canterbury. The signup however should be followed by the nearest town or city, although this is not needed if they have put a correct postcode.
Republic of Ireland
-Same as the above, but these signups have no post code (just the city name, eg Cork)
Sweden:
- Street name followed by number and sometimes a letter. There could also be no number or letter, but that is rather seldom.
- 5-digit-postcode followed by name of city
Example: Lundagatan 44d, 117 27 Stockholm
Post codes could be checked at: (http://www.posten.se/index.jsp? PageName=Service&ServiceURL=%2Fforetag%2Fvara_tjanster%2 Fpostnummersok%2Findex.jsp&remote_postnummer=0)
Schweiz
-Street name followed by street number
-4 Digit Postal Code followed by city name
easy to check under (http://tel.search.ch)
Hellas
-Street number followed by street name
-5 Digit Postal Code followed by city name (sometimes region/city)
Ex:
120 Vasilissis Sophias Avenue
115 26 Athens
OR
357-359 Messogion Avenue
152 31 Halandri, Athens
Finland
- Street name and number. Maybe a house letter plus number.
- 5 digit postal code plus city name
-> Vaapukkatie 1 C 8
49400 Hamina
Mail Common Phrases
For people who get put in USA because of AOL:
Register as normal (even it says in the USA), with your ............ address details. You'll then be moved to the ........ League prior to getting a team.
GM-
People who can't log in and NOT in Admin:
I am guessing that you have registered with fake or incorrect details, and therefore was deleted from the waiting list. Please re-register with your correct details.
GM-
If people want info about the game:
If you are unsure of anything in Hattrick, follow this procedure:
1. Look through the Rules thoroughly for any information.
2. Look through the FAQ section under 'About Hattrick'.
3. Ask on the Newbie conference.
GM-
A temporary problem:
Try entering your details now, and if there is still a problem, mail us again.
GM-
Thanks for reporting cheat:
We will deal with this accordingly.
GM-
Mail with no reference to a team in Hattrick:
Please state your username and/or team name and then we may be able to help you.
GM-
Bankrupt:
You have two choices. You can either:
1. Wait seven weeks for your details to be deleted automatically; you can then use your original e-mail and details to log on.
2. Register straight away but you will have to use a different e-mail address.
GM-
Registering a New Team, despite having one (by My Hattrick):
You have tried to recently register another team in Hattrick, along with your own. This is prohibited by the rules and you have been fined accordingly.
Please respect the Rules and DO NOT register another team.
/GM-
A person wants to leave Hattrick:
Leave your account inactive for 7 weeks, and the Hattrick System will automatically clear your existing team.
(Alternatively, you can just lock them)
GM-
Suggestion:
The best way to suggest ideas and enhancements to Hattrick is to e-mail dev@hattrick.org with your specific idea.
GM-
Supporter Questions:
Please send any questions about Hattrick Supporter to orders@hattrick.org. He will be able to help you.
GM-
Someone registers in wrong league, and it's been accepted:
There is no way of moving your existing team to (designated country). However, I could close your (existing country) team and you could register a new team that I would move to the (designated country) League. It is your choice.
GM-
Cheating reply 1:
The below quote is from the section, About Hattrick, Rules, Section 24. Your Behavior:
"It’s also prohibited to buy players from friends at obviously inflated prices, even though you’re just trying to be a nice guy!"
You have violated this rule and both/all your teams have been locked as a result.
Also, please note that (quoted from Section 25. Gamemasters), "It’s not the Gamemasters obligation to prove possible cheating - on the contrary, it’s the Gamemasters obligation to suspend any players they’re convinced are cheating."
I am convinced of cheating in your case, unless you have definite proof of your innocence.
GM-
Cheating Reply 2
The below quote is from the section, About Hattrick, Rules, Section 24. Your Behavior:
"Also note that only one team is allowed a person. It is also forbidden to control extra teams by using a friend’s name. The owner of a team shall also be the one controlling it."
You have violated this rule and both/all your teams have been locked as a result.
GM-
Cheating Reply 3
Neither of you will be getting your team back. However, I will give you the opportunity to have a new team, as long as you obey the rules from now on. If you do break the Rules once more, a more severe punishment will be used. In addition, you will have to wait a minimum of 7 weeks until you get your team, as your e-mail address needs to be deleted by the Hattrick System before you can re-register.
GM-
Different e-mail to team registered
The email that the team is registered at does not match the email used to query us regarding this account. It is our policy to only discuss accounts when the email used to contact us is the email registered to the relevant account, for obvious reasons regarding team ownership issues.
GM-
Cheating Reply 4
There is no proof to show that you are relatives. All I know, is that your 'relative' has bid a large amount of money on your player, causing other players to not get the benefit of this money and therefore you are cheating the game. There is other proof that I have, but I cannot disclose it.
GM-
Fake details, but got past the registration process
It appears that you did not submit name and/or address details when registering. Could you please tell us now, so we can verify whom you are in case of any problems that arise during your stay in Hattrick. Your account will be locked until it has been submitted. Thank you for your time.
GM-
Locked for 2nd/3rd attempt at new teams; despite having one (By User Page)
We have recently found that you have tried to register a new team (despite having one) for a second time. We feel now that you have not considered our warnings and fines, so we have decided to lock your team.
/GM-
Offensive Behavior via HT-Mail
You have been fined £***** for offensive and/or abusive HT-Mails to another Hattrick Player. Please refer to Section 24: Your Behavior for information on what is acceptable in the community.
GM-
A user writes in a foreign language
We are the ....... Gamemasters, and we therefore respond to mails written in ....... If you need to find a specific GM, follow the below:
• On the Hattrick Menu, select ‘About Hattrick’.
• From the sub-menu, select ‘Gamemasters’
• Look for the link in the page that says: Contact the right GM, and click on it.
• Find the GM responsible for your country, or contact global@hattrick.org if you do not have a GM for your country.
GM-
A user has a foreign team
We only deal with ....... issues. If you need to find a specific GM, follow the below:
• On the Hattrick Menu, select ‘About Hattrick’.
• From the sub-menu, select ‘Gamemasters’
• Look for the link in the page that says: Contact the right GM, and click on it.
• Find the GM responsible for your country, or contact global@hattrick.org if you do not have a GM for your country.
GM-
If a user doesn’t have the entire screen showing
To fix this problem, you can change the pixel size so you can see the whole screen. You can do this by:
• Right-clicking on your desktop
• Left-click ‘Properties’
• Choose the ‘Settings’ tab
• Under the ‘Screen Area’ section, move the button so the text below says ‘1024 by 768 pixels’.
You should then be able to see the whole screen. These instructions definitely work for a Windows 98 system.
GM-
If a user still has the previous team’s name on everything
This is a minor problem that the Development Team is aware of. It should be corrected by the end of the season at the latest. For the moment, there is nothing we can do.
GM-
A user wants a team in a country different to his residence
I am afraid that you can only have a team in your place of residence. This is stated in the Hattrick Rules. Therefore, you can either have a team in ......
A user wants to have a new team because of relegation/ bad luck
From the FAQ:
"2/6/2002 Can I start all over again with a new team?
No. You play with the team you have been assigned or not at all. If your team goes bankrupt despite your efforts to save it you may apply for a new team but not until the bankruptcy is a fact."
Therefore, you have to continue with your current team.
GM-
Changing team name
From the FAQ:
"2/6/2002 Can I change the name or region of the team?
Yes, but only in between seasons. A link will appear in your club pages. It is however not for free."
GM-
People who ask for more info about cheat cases once banned
We have compelling evidence that you did violate the Rules in some way. However, we cannot disclose it at this time because of our internal policy. Therefore, I will not reply to any e-mail sent by you unless you have concrete evidence suggesting the opposite.
GM-
Someone sends SPAM
You have been fined £***** for sending SPAM HT-Mails to another Hattrick User. Please refer to Section 24: Your Behavior for information on what is acceptable in the community.
GM-
Somebody sends Racist comments
You have been fined £***** for sending racist HT-Mails to another Hattrick User. This is totally unacceptable. Please refer to Section 24: Your Behavior for information on what is acceptable in the community.
GM-
Standard mail (from ‘GM’ in Admin)
(GM Note: Put yours here for reference)
Your teams have been closed for cheating and/or for having multiple teams. There is sufficient evidence that one person controls these teams, and therefore all teams are closed and will remain locked unless you can provide a good reason as to why you cheated. My decision is final.
Please do not reply to this email unless you can definitely prove you are innocent of this accusation.
GM-
A person wants a team in another country, but is of a different nationality.
From the FAQ:
"2/6/2002 Could I have a team in another country than my own
Nope. You have to play in your own league. Otherwise popular leagues like England and Italy would fill up with foreigners, preventing the locals from getting a team in their own country."
Therefore, it is not possible for you to claim a team in England. If you are living abroad at this time, I would suggest getting a team in the country you are residing, or wait until you come back to your country of birth.
GM-
People asking whether it is ok for two people to share computer
From the FAQ:
"2/6/2002 Can many people who share a computer have teams?
Yes. A good suggestion though is to avoid doing business with each other and you may absolutely not log on to each other’s teams. Teams should be managed on an individual basis."
Therefore, it is fine to have two people logging on from the same computer. However, We strongly recommend not buying players between the teams (even at legitimate prices).
GM-
When a person complains about their fine when trying to register an extra team
The below quote is from the section, About Hattrick, Rules, Section 24. Your Behavior:
"Also note that only one team is allowed a person. It is also forbidden to control extra teams by using a friend’s name. The owner of a team shall also be the one controlling it."
Since by registering the team yourself, it acts as if you are controlling the team. Therefore, this is why you have been fined.
GM-
Known bugs not likely to be fixedBugs and problems listed here should not be reported into Reporting Tool and will be dismissed without comment.
Transfer payments
Sometimes the transfer-process go wrong, and players get charged many times for one player. It happens very seldom but with millions of transfers happening, it sometimes does. There if unfortunately nothing we can do about it, but to have the GMs refund manually. Also, always remember to check the selling team if they have received to much money.
A similar problem is when teams don't get their money or previous-club money. The same thing here - if a user complains, check it up and if he seems right, just give him the missing money.
Transfer list
When a player is sent to the transfer list, or when bids are placed, the main database table for transfers, is always updated. Apart from this, some cache tables are supposed to be updated. Sometime (very rarly, but it happens) these cache tables fail to get updated. The consequences may include: Transfer listed players do not get a $ sign, the transferList.asp page does not show the updated info until some time delayed (but the playerDetails page always shows the right data. This is not nothing that will be fixed, because it is actually deliberate (if an update frails, we'd rather have the less important cache data not being updated, than have the entire transaction fail).
Last round in series not updated
Sometimes the last/next round match lists in the upper right corner of the series table page does not get updated properly. This will not be fixed in the foreseeable future. It does not affect anything.
Also please note that it may take a while before the series table is updated after the matches. This is becuase of caching.
Challenge reported as accepted but no match
Sometimes when a user has clicked the "accept" button for a challenge, the actual accept process goes wrong, yet a message is sent to the challenger. This means that the match never appears. This is easily fixed by accepting the friendly again, which works perfectly fine.
Challenges still possible even though other match booked
Sometimes a user can still get challenges though he already has a friendly booked. The system makes sure that it's impossible to have multiple matches, so the extra challenges can be ignored.
Conferences: Messages with certain HT-ML looks weird
When using a certain combination of HT-ML, the display system fucks up and truncates certain parts of the real html. This means that some messages may appeared corrupt, and especially if those messages are deleted and shown to moderators.
Locked teams get unlocked
If zeb/GM locks a user, and the user comes back from bankruptcy, ht.exe will remove the lock.
chi può essere così leso da scrivere una cosa del genere, così tanto per far girare una bufala??!:confused: :eek:
(tra l'altro non l'ho letto..troppo lungo..:asd: :p )
chi può essere così leso da scrivere una cosa del genere, così tanto per far girare una bufala??!:confused: :eek:
(tra l'altro non l'ho letto..troppo lungo..:asd: :p )
Io l'ho letto tutto a suo tempo... :asd:
Alla fin fine non dice niente di che... :sisi:
Io l'ho letto tutto a suo tempo... :asd:
Alla fin fine non dice niente di che... :sisi:
Beh dai, la famosa domanda degli utenti "che ne sa che ci sono io davanti al pc e non mio fratello" troverebbe qualche risposta :D
First, Zeb looks for similarities in the info supplied by the users. Things like email-addresses, names and so on will be compared. This is the weak part of Zeb, since it won't find all mystical similarities that a human could. Anyway, it's a good thing to check out the email addresses.
Secondly, the password check is carried out. Zeb looks for a couple of things: First, if any of the teams in the ticket has the same password as another, Zeb will print it in the report. The same thing will happen if any of the teams has, in its login failures-log, the password of any other team in the report. This means that someone has written the password of another team. Last, Zeb will match the passwords with ALL teams in Hattrick, to see if any team has the same. In that case, those teams will be printed and you will presented with the option to add that team to the ticket. The same apply for all passwords in the login-failures log.
Third, Zeb checks if any of the users have written any HT-mails to each other.
Fourth, Zeb looks for similarities in login-times. For each user, for each IP-address, Zeb will look if any other user in the ticket has logged in or logged out within two minutes. This indicates that the user first logs in on one team, then logs out and quickly logs in on another team. However, one such incident is no case of cheating, unless the owners claim not to know each other. More than three or four is really suspicious. Zeb will print out the login- and logout-times as well as which users that are involved.
Fifth, all transfers between the teams in the ticket is presented. The players are linked, so you can check out how good they really are.
Beh dai, la famosa domanda degli utenti "che ne sa che ci sono io davanti al pc e non mio fratello" troverebbe qualche risposta :D
First, Zeb looks for similarities in the info supplied by the users. Things like email-addresses, names and so on will be compared. This is the weak part of Zeb, since it won't find all mystical similarities that a human could. Anyway, it's a good thing to check out the email addresses.
Secondly, the password check is carried out. Zeb looks for a couple of things: First, if any of the teams in the ticket has the same password as another, Zeb will print it in the report. The same thing will happen if any of the teams has, in its login failures-log, the password of any other team in the report. This means that someone has written the password of another team. Last, Zeb will match the passwords with ALL teams in Hattrick, to see if any team has the same. In that case, those teams will be printed and you will presented with the option to add that team to the ticket. The same apply for all passwords in the login-failures log.
Third, Zeb checks if any of the users have written any HT-mails to each other.
Fourth, Zeb looks for similarities in login-times. For each user, for each IP-address, Zeb will look if any other user in the ticket has logged in or logged out within two minutes. This indicates that the user first logs in on one team, then logs out and quickly logs in on another team. However, one such incident is no case of cheating, unless the owners claim not to know each other. More than three or four is really suspicious. Zeb will print out the login- and logout-times as well as which users that are involved.
Fifth, all transfers between the teams in the ticket is presented. The players are linked, so you can check out how good they really are.
L'avevo pensato anch'io.. però più che parlare delle password simili e delle sessioni non fa. :sisi:
Le immagini non le hai viste? :p
P.S. Adesso passa di qua moro45 e ci banna entrambi... :suspi:
macedone
08-02-2007, 10:31
Lestat... Prima o poi ti segheranno la squadra...
:asd: :asd: :asd:
Lestat... Prima o poi ti segheranno la squadra...
per adesso gli stanno segando i giocatori, uno alla volta...:sisi:
:asd:
Le immagini non le hai viste? :p
No :suspi:
Ma siamo sicuri sia una bufala?
secondo me solo un pazzo furioso può buttare via ore e ore a scrivere quel poema
lo vidi un anno fa,e lo segnalai..
mi risposero che lo conoscevano già e che era una bufala ovviamente..
e che però per forza di cose,anche se tirando ad indovinare,qualcosa di vero lo avevano azzeccato in quel documento..
pensate che su emule cercavo programmi per hattrick,mi esce quello,lo scarico e mi prende un colpo!
anche perchè ai tempi in condivisone lo avevano in pochissimi,e segnalandolo allo staff pensavo di aver appena salvato il mondo :asd:
pensate che su emule cercavo programmi per hattrick,mi esce quello,lo scarico e mi prende un colpo!
anche perchè ai tempi in condivisone lo avevano in pochissimi,e segnalandolo allo staff pensavo di aver appena salvato il mondo :asd:
Curioso, anch'io. :asd: :p
Era l'archivo con le immagini o solo il txt? :suspi:
solo txt,niente immagini,altrimenti avrei proprio collassato sul posto penso :asd:
solo txt,niente immagini,altrimenti avrei proprio collassato sul posto penso :asd:
Potrei farti collassare :asd:
pare ci sia una maledizione........chi lo legge retrocede :asd:
Un c'è problemi, tanto m'hanno cancellato la squadra! Si legge tutto!
Potrei farti collassare :asd:
ho trovato le immagini...
evito i commenti al riguardo ;)
evito i commenti al riguardo ;)
Anche perchè il sito che si legge di traverso non esiste.. :sisi:
Anche perchè il sito che si legge di traverso non esiste.. :sisi:
non sarà mai esistito,o magari non esiste piu? :suspi:
non sarà mai esistito,o magari non esiste piu? :suspi:
archive.org non ne riporta traccia... :sisi:
Mah, chi lo sa...
non ci sono ex-GM bannati che possono confermare? :asd:
archive.org non ne riporta traccia... :sisi:
Mah, chi lo sa...
non ci sono ex-GM bannati che possono confermare? :asd:
comunque sia è un lavoro certosino e fatto veramente bene,non c'è niente da dire..
sarà pure di fantasia,una bufala,ma non è facile raggiungere un risultato del genere....
impressionante,vedendo le 40 foto ti viene da crederci :sisi:
pensa che ho fatto dei controlli,alcuni dei dati che sono presenti nelle schermate,sono pure reali :suspi:
comunque sia è un lavoro certosino e fatto veramente bene,non c'è niente da dire..
sarà pure di fantasia,una bufala,ma non è facile raggiungere un risultato del genere....
impressionante,vedendo le 40 foto ti viene da crederci :sisi:
pensa che ho fatto dei controlli,alcuni dei dati che sono presenti nelle schermate,sono pure reali :suspi:
Ecco perchè io non sono sicuro sia una bufala... non del tutto...
Ovvio che i GM ti dicono che lo è, al posto loro farei uguale. :p
Mah.. :suspi:
Ecco perchè io non sono sicuro sia una bufala... non del tutto...
Ovvio che i GM ti dicono che lo è, al posto loro farei uguale. :p
Mah.. :suspi:
anche fosse vero,non lo ammetterebbero mai per ovvie ragioni,e fanno bene.
mi fido di quello che dicono e gli credo comunque.
però è anche vero che ci saranno stati talmente tanti GM nel mondo,che non mi sembra impensabile a priori che uno abbia sbroccato pubblicando tutto..
comunque sia,la verità è quello che ci dicono,non possiamo realisticamente pensare ad altro :sisi:
Linkatemi (o piemmatemi) l'url delle immagini, ora sono ancora più curioso..
Comunque
http://www.mediaset.it/binary/43.$plit/C_10_immagine_10939_fileimmagine.jpg è buGGia
:asd:
Ma siamo sicuri sia una bufala?
secondo me solo un pazzo furioso può buttare via ore e ore a scrivere quel poema
L'unica spiegazione che salverebbe la salute psichica dell'autore è che ha preso come schema un documento reale di un altro gioco Online, ha copia-incollato e ha sostituito solo qualche parola qua e là per riferirlo ad Hattrick.
L'FBI sta indagando e intanto Dampyr e MgPlex sabato avranno i primi infortunati :asd:
Linkatemi (o piemmatemi) l'url delle immagini, ora sono ancora più curioso..
Comunque
http://www.mediaset.it/binary/43.$plit/C_10_immagine_10939_fileimmagine.jpg è buGGia
:asd:
questa è fantastica :asd: :asd: :asd:
le immagini evito di linkartele che un si sa mai,mi si dovesse spaccare mezza squadra :sisi:
MaDFeRReT
08-02-2007, 21:04
so curioso di vedere le immagini.. chi mi pi-emma?:)
whitegandalf
08-02-2007, 21:14
so curioso di vedere le immagini.. chi mi pi-emma?:)
PM anche per me se possibile :D
Uhm...archive.org ha rintracciato dei file robots.txt (quelli per non farsi indicizzare degli spider dei motori di ricerca.. ) riguardo al sito in questione...
mistero.. :suspi:
PM anche per me se possibile :D
Per i PM vorrei evitare di piazzare le immagini online.. come fare? :suspi:
Per i PM vorrei evitare di piazzare le immagini online.. come fare? :suspi:
Le piazzo io :asd:
Le ho trovate nella stiva di un Cargo battente bandiera panamense (htsecrets.org)
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/7898/zeb2004fq5.jpg
http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/2325/teamstatusgd7.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3121/homebn4.jpg
Comunque vi ripeto che è buGGia :sisi:
Ecco...ce ne sono altre 37 :asd:
chiunque abbia fatto tutto ciè è un pazzo...
Ecco...ce ne sono altre 37 :asd:
Il cargo puzzava di chiuso e non ho fatto in tempo a sottrarle tutte :asd:
E' palesamente una bufala, la gamma dei colori in HT va dal verde pisello al verde scuro :D
Secondo me non è possibile che tutto ciò sia una bufala....
solo un pazzo furioso, ma veramente da pazzo da legare può mettere su una montatura di tale portata...e a che scopo poi???
P.s.
per zebulon ha usato un immagine del mitico zio Zeb McHan del telefilm anni ottanta Alla Conquista del West!
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